Okay folks, here's a bold idea.
Since we're all writing (and submitting) lyrics could we set a date sometime in the future to post demos / finished songs either to the list, or via our own webspaces? It's one thing to read (and try to understand) each other's lyrics, but there's always another dimension to be added by the delivery and the music.
Also, since it seems to be a common theme that we have trouble finishing our works, an informal 'deadline' (sorry to use the word...) might just spur us on...
Just an idea...
Cheers,
Good Health...
Ian.

Hi Ian,


I totally agree with you! But I'm afraid I don't have the possibility to make decent recordings - at least not yet.

I mean - you're right! After all this is a SONGWRITER's forum, not a Lyrics forum....but I'm neither able to listen to mp3's at the moment, let alone to produce some.

Cheers,
Annika (with hanging shoulders...)

Ian, I like your idea, but I think we really need to be cooperative and resourceful to get this thing rolling! We can make this work if we all agree (1) to work together and (2) to use whatever means are at our disposal.

For example, Annika, if you've got a computer, I'm sure there's a way for you to hear the MP3s. If we put our heads together we could help you get set up to listen.

Now if you can't record a multi-track demo, you can always make a decent recording of you and your guitar with just a condenser mike and a cassette machine. I'm sure everybody here is mature enough to hear and appreciate a recording like that. I know that for many years that's all I had to record with. Some of my best stuff is still in that form. I could give you lots of tips on how to get simple equipment to yield good results.

If you can't make an MP3 of it yourself, no problem. Just mail the tape to one of us who can. Right now I'm blessed enough to have the right equipment to turn any tape into a CD and an MP3, and I could even "clean" up the tape noise to boot! I'd be happy to do that for anybody here, and I'm sure theres other people in this group who would do the same.

I know I'd jump at the chance to produce a demo for anybody here, but I'm lost in the midwest of America, so there's not much chance anyone is gonna drop by my flat for a weekend recording session. But, you know, in the future there may be somebody with a decent home studio there in Germany, or some close European neighbor, so you never know.

Anyway, I have this wonderful vision for this group where those who have help out those who haven't and where we're all very open to any type or quality of recording so long as it gets the song across.

I'm sure many of us could even pitch in together and buy a bit of webspace just for the purpose of hosting the songs. Myself I'm pretty skilled as a web designer, and I'd spare a buck or two for something like that.

We could even aim to put out a compilation CD eventually, mixing together all the different types of productions and styles of recordings from the very primitive to the elaborate, and I think something like that would be really interesting and a lot of fun.

It wouldn't have to be like a stodgey old mainstream pop album with 12 formula perfect productions. It could be be a lovely 20 track patchwork of stuff.

Now this sounds interesting…

“For example, Annika, if you've got a computer, I'm sure there's a way
for you to hear the MP3s. If we put our heads together we could help
you get set up to listen.”

Since I live in Luxembourg, I’m probably the best placed of the forumites to help out Annika. For example, I’d be happy to download tracks and burn them to CD and stick ‘em in the post to Heidelberg. I post quite a lot of CDs around Europe anyway so I’m used to doing it, and nowadays a blank disk is only around half a Euro.

“Now if you can't record a multi-track demo, you can always make a
decent recording of you and your guitar with just a condenser mike and
a cassette machine. If you can't make an MP3 of it yourself, no problem. Just mail the
tape to one of us who can.”

I guess I could fit that role too! I haven’t ever recorded from cassette to PC but I’m sure I have the right equipment to do it and I’d have fun figuring it out. I have a PC with a line in and use Cool Edit Pro recording software so that should be enough to convert cassettes to mp3. I couldn’t “produce” any recordings as I’ve pretty much only taken the first step on the Cool Edit Pro learning curve but conversions and perhaps even cleaning up tape-hiss I could do.

“But, you know, in the future there may be somebody with a decent home studio
there in Germany, or some close European neighbor, so you never know.”

Well, maybe one day LOL! I’ve spent a lot of time over the last three months or so researching home recording gear and got my small condenser mics through yesterday! It’s quite a minefield the home recording lark and the learning curve is HUGE. It’s taken me around 1,000 Euros to get to the stage I’m at now but hopefully I should be able to start recording something pretty decent. So far I’ve got a few recordings on my site that I’m pretty pleased with – all done with a large condenser mic. (for some reason my site seems to be down – bloomin’ host provider messing me about again!)

We could even aim to put out a compilation CD eventually, mixing
together all the different types of productions and styles of
recordings from the very primitive to the elaborate, and I think
something like that would be really interesting and a lot of fun.

That would be fun indeed and would give me the much needed impetus to get off my backside and actually attempt to finish something.

So Annika, let me know if I can help with burning mp3s to disk or converting recordings to mp3 and I’ll see what I can do.

Cheers,
Cams

Hi Patrick, Hi Cams,

"Since I live in Luxembourg, I’m probably the best placed of the forumites to help out Annika. For example, I’d be happy to download tracks and burn them to CD and stick ‘em in the post to Heidelberg. I post quite a lot of CDs around Europe anyway so I’m used to doing it, and nowadays a blank disk is only around half a Euro."

That would be just fantastic! Thank you very much!

Patrick, you suggested to download songs overnight in the ASTRAL PLANE thread - I'm sorry, but I can't pay that much! Even if I did use a cheap line, it still would cost me quite a lot. (I pay around 0.98 cents per minute (Euro cents...but that's about the same as US cents, no?) ...not much for an hour, but it does accumulate (?) at some point.)

"I guess I could fit that role too! I haven’t ever recorded from cassette to PC but I’m sure I have the right equipment to do it and I’d have fun figuring it out. I have a PC with a line in and use Cool Edit Pro recording software so that should be enough to convert cassettes to mp3. I couldn’t “produce” any recordings as I’ve pretty much only taken the first step on the Cool Edit Pro learning curve but conversions and perhaps even cleaning up tape-hiss I could do."

Thanks very much Cams! Yesterday I talked to Ela ,the cellist I work with right now, and she told me she had the possibility of converting a cassette of mine (which I've recorded in 98 - no way a decent quality though) into mp3 files. We might even record some tracks with cello and guitar. But even if I had those I still wouldn't know how to put them on the web. And after what you said about mp3.com, Patrick, I'm not so fond of putting them there. If anyone could me help out on that....


"We could even aim to put out a compilation CD eventually, mixing together all the different types of productions and styles of recordings from the very primitive to the elaborate, and I think something like that would be really interesting and a lot of fun."

Hey, that's a GREAT idea!!! I really, really like it!

Cheers,
Annika

Hi folks,
Don't have much in the way of recording 'gear', but happen to have a 4-track cassette recorder plugged into and a genuine (no, really) copy of Cubase. If you fancy mailing me CDs or tapes I'd be happy to covert them to .mp3 / CDs from tapes etc..., or do overdubs onto an original 'source' song...
Wow.
Very very excited!
Cheers,
Ian.

Looking forward to finally moving house, so I can get back into recording properly...

Hooray for you Cams!

By the way, what's the dominant format for sound recordings out in Europe? Somebody told me you guys use mini-discs for everything and that CDs aren't very common. Is that true?


Annika, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had to pay for your internet use by the minute. That format is pretty much extict here in the states. Everybody here pays a flat rate... like 30 dollars a month for unlimited internet use.

I'm sure there's other in your predicament who will find it very difficult to get songs off the internet. Maybe we should try to circulate some recordings via mail. I'm sure many of us have the ability to burn MP3s back to cd and send 'em around.

"Somebody told me you guys use mini-discs for everything and that CDs aren't very common. Is that true?"

NO WAY!!! I never had mini-discs!! We buy and burn CD's the same way you do!

"Everybody here pays a flat rate... like 30 dollars a month for unlimited internet use."

Yes, this exists here, also, but it's not possible to use a flat rate with a modem.
Flat rate would be just great for me!!

Cheers,
Annika

"Somebody told me you guys use mini-discs for everything and that CDs aren't very common. Is that true?"

Not really true. MDs are certainly useful if you have a decent microphone but I've never used mine for that. I do plan to get a mic for it for my visit to a UK gathering of acoustic guitarheads next March and thereafter perhaps sneak it into gigs ;) And burning to CD is as common here as anywhere else.*

As for the flat-rate thing, as Annika says it's not so readily available on mainland Europe for some reason. It has been pretty standard now in the UK though for a couple of years. I guess it consolidates my theory that in terms of a consumer economy, the US is at the forefront with the UK a few steps behind and mainland Europe still being somewhat in the dark ages. Try shopping at lunchtime or on a Sunday in Luxembourg or Germany and you'll see what I mean. It drives me absolutely nuts sometimes - drive into the city, arrive at 11.30-ish then have to kill two hours between 12 and 2 before the shops open again. AAARGH! springs to mind.

Fortunately enough our area in Luxembourg is one of the few that is DSL-enabled so I pay the monthly fee of 75 Euros for a 256kb downstream line - pricey, huh?

Cheers,
Cams

*Annika, if you want me to send you a CD of Patrick's track, mail me your address off-board and I'll get one in the post for you.

MDs are convenient in the same way that Dictaphones are - handy little pocket-sized creatures - just don't expect amazing quality (even when copying straight from CD...)
CD quality is much better IMHO, but it still not as good as Vinyl.
Lump of wax, anyone?

I'm with you on Vinyl Ian. Analog recording captures sound in it's true form... as a continuous wave. Of all the analog forms of recording... A huge fat thick magnetic tape is the best for capturing this. Of all the formats for mastering that tape, the Vinyl LP disc is the best.

Well, I quite like Vinyl as well, but more for the LP covers really. They are larger than CD covers which makes them more beautiful - it's more like an art...
As for the recording quality, I do think that CD's sound "cleaner", but the cracking on LP's creates quite an atmosphere! I must say that I hate them when listening to Classical Music though; that's quite disturbing....
But I'm generelly pro-vinyl!

I'm not a fan of vinyl AT ALL; never have been. The media is too easy to damage for my liking and CDs are just too convenient. I dare say that for audio purists, there is something to be gained from some pricey hi-fi equipment for vinyl, but for me, digital audio is plenty good enough.

I'm gonna play purist-advocate some more and mention that even today, a good percentage of the digital music for sale was originally recorded on the same old fat magnetic tape that they used to master to vinyl.

I have to agree that CDs are more convenient. A vinyl album in perfect condition (IMO) still sounds better, but keeping dust and oil out of those grooves is... well you have to be anal as hell about it. Also, navigating through a CD is 1000 times easier. No needle to pick up and move, no flip side to flip to.

Still... in theory, perfect vinyl sounds more vibrant and alive.

Hi,

I know it's a long time ago since anyone contributed to this songwriter's discussion - we gave up since we couldn't make each other listen to our songs. Now, 3 and a half years later, I would like to invite you to listen to some of my songs at www.ezfolk.com/audio/annika_jayne. Maybe we could even revive the discussion! Let me know what you think of it!

Cheers,
Annika