I'm new on this list and hope I don't ruffle any feathers out of my ignorance. I'm just surprised that this song has not been discussed. I don't know anything about what Suzanne has said of its meaning. It sings so clearly to me of the experience of having been molested that I worry that Suzanne, or someone she cared deeply about, had exactly that experience.

For my own reasons, I find particularly disturbing that the doctor does not ask the right questions. I am a physician, but I find my best successes are by listening long enough to a patient to ask the right question. But in my small specialty, I usually get enough time to ask that question, not like the peopel in primary care. Since my specialty often deals with symptoms that could be "medical" or "organic" but are not uncommonly due to psychological problems (abuse, molestation, neglect), i HOPE I've gotten good at this kind of listening. But I do hear stories where the clues were there but no one asked the right question. And perhaps I don't either. I used to play this one for psychiatry residents when I taught them.

Hi Daniel,

Please don't worry about "ruffl[ing] any feathers out of ... ignorance" - I certainly know very little about Suzanne's music in the grand scheme of things and am learning all the time! I don't know what's been said about this song before either - except that there is a passage about it in Suzanne's book, The Passionate Eye. What you write is really interesting, I've never thought about that specific line of the song like that. Nor have I considered that it might be about abuse. For me the key is in the line, "Too young to know too much too soon," which I interpret to be about kids choosing to have experiences prematurely - before they're really ready for them. I think the examples given in the book are taking LSD or having sex.

What do you think?

Stella

Dear Stella and Daniel,

I have to go with Daniel on this one (from the moment I first heard this song). If I had not spent so much time in the Tow Lounge lately, I would have answered Daniel already, as I have kept his e-mail aside to do so. Sorry about that, Daniel—my perception of this song will make it's way to you.

And Stella, for someone who "knows little about Suzanne's music in the grand scheme of things" you certainly deserve a pat on the back for even making the attempt to figure things out—many never do, and that's OK, too if you just like the sound or even the lyrics. But they (the songs) begin to take on epic proportions once you have delved deeply.

Love, Catherine

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"If we don't change the direction we are headed,
we will end up where we are going."

—Chinese Proverb

Thanks for your thoughts, Catherine. I guess another reason why I find the abuse theory difficult is because the mother in the song looks at the child in a "hard and suspecting" way. The girl (I assume it's a girl speaking) once expected to find comfort in her mother's eyes, but when she most needs it, she doesn't find it. I take that to be because the mother perceives that the girl has herself done something wrong.

Love, Stella

I think I heard the "abuse" angle once before and was really suprised to realize how well it fits the lyrics. The catch to this is, the speaker says, "I'm not a child".

I always considered "Bad Wisdom" to be a way of thinking that seems "wise" but actually takes one further from the truth. "The Truth" in this scenario would be a spiritual truth, which is not acknowledged because it seems to defy logic. A very logic-minded person (like a doctor) might not dare "ask the right question" about some seemingly fantastical, yet pertinent truth.

On the other hand, spiritual wisdom is also "bad" for the speaker because she finds herself surrounded by people who refuse to share her view of the world. This, I assume, is why she sings about being abandoned by her friends, who think she is simply a "daydreamer" and then to make things worse, even her own mother cannot see eye to eye any longer.

This of course leaves us with the nagging question: Just who is it who's "too young to know too much too soon"?

In my opinion, it is "The Doctor" who is too young to handle the truth she is trying to give him. To him it's simply "strange information". But he is her last hope... her last chance to escape isolation.

If he adheres to his bad wisdom then she'll be "cut at the root like a weed" because there will be nobody left to hear her "small story".






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as an asside, I find it very interesting that in the context of the album, this song is the third one which refers to "The Doctor", who pops up in "Blood Makes Noise" and again in "If You Were In My Movie".

Hi Pat, Stella and Daniel,

I think I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll say it again, just in case you guys didn't see it. I don't usually post in the songs thread (although I read them and find the interpretations fascinating) because they really are so subjective, and could mean so many different things to people

But I did step into this one so I'll finish by walking out on a limb and trying to explain what this song said to me from the moment I heard it. I might be completely off base, and only Suzanne would know what she had in mind when she penned these lyrics, so again, this is just my interpretation of what it means. I found it perfect that the music in the song was almost "white noise" so as not to take away from the importance or the focus of the story quietly being told....although not listed as an instrument played, it sounded like a sad, whining harmonica in the background—almost crying along with the story.

I took "Bad Wisdom" very literally, as Daniel has said, that it is about a child who has been molested. I hear it with the child speaking as the narrative voice throughout. When she says "I'm not a child," if you take the whole line, and not just that one phrase, it says: "he's looked in my eyes and knows I'm not a child (But he doesn't dare ask the right question"). To me, this means that the Doctor has examined her, and for her age—her body has "strange information." He knows that her innocence has been stolen by someone (and of course the child is not offering up who and doesn't even know what to call it but "strange information"). Possibly because of his own discomfort, "he doesn't dare ask the right question." (Has anyone touched you in places that you don't feel comfortable? The kind of probing questions that you would ask a child if you suspected molestation and could handle the information and know what to do about it yourself).

The child continues to talk to her Mother through all of this (most lines begin with "Mother...."), hoping that the mother will understand and comfort her, as the child herself has been changed from this experience. Her friends are no longer her friends because while she has not admitted anything to anyone outright, they can sense that she is no longer the same person, and since she's "gone serious and shy and they can't figure why so they've left me to my own daydreaming." The Doctor couldn't handle it, the friends are children and don't understand what's "wrong" with her and just want to be kids and have fun, so they shun her. What does the child do? The "daydreaming" here seems account for the constant replaying of what happened in the child's mind.

Again, the child wonders (to her Mother) about what she has been taught: if she's a "good girl" she will be protected—but in light of what has now happened (which can never be undone)—she realizes that there really is no protection, from anyone. Thus, the next stanza of the song ("fallen through the crack.....never trust whoever gets elected.") The child knows that the faith that she has put into adults cannot be relied upon—ever.

Now the child is noticing that the Mother's "eyes have gone suddenly cold And it wasn't what I was expecting Once I did think that I'd find comfort there And instead you've gone hard and suspecting." The mother has taken in all of this information and is now wondering if molestation/incest has occurred. Oddly enough, instead of offering the comfort that is needed and deserved—the mother blames the child because she, too, cannot face reality. Did she do something to entice her father, her uncle, her brother, whoever....? Yet another person, the most important person of all to the child, cannot accept this and has turned AWAY instead of TOWARD her, bringing on more hurt, pain, confusion on the child's part.

"Mother I'm cut at the root like a weed Cause there's no one to hear my small story." The child knows that no one will believe her—she has been cut off at the root of her being. In the scheme of things her story is "small" because of that. It has no impact on anyone who could possibly help or understand—they've all (in one way or another) turned away from her.

"Just like a woman who walks in the street I will pay for my life with my body." She knows she is completely alone and feels worthless, wondering if she 'asked for it,' deserved it. For the rest of her life she will have to live with what was done to her body (by herself).

"Too young to know Too much too soon Bad Wisdom." She has reached out to find no one there—and worse yet, they have turned against her. Bad Wisdom; being forced to learn about something you didn't want to learn about—not now, not like this. And certainly not without her Mother by her side to see her through. "What price to pay For Bad Wisdom." The "price" is that you are never the same...

Bad wisdom, indeed, wouldn't you say?

Love, Catherine

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"If we don't change the direction we are headed,
we will end up where we are going."

—Chinese Proverb

Cath, that was a great peice of insight. I've never heard it all explained line by line like that. I have to admit, my own interpretation looks pretty generic and outlandish by comparisson.

Another thing that seems to reinforce your interpretation is in "The Passionate Eye". There's that poem called "not me", which I read as certainly being about... well at least statutory rape, if not child molestation.

Hi Pat,

Actually, it was the only way that I could think to do it that would explain my interpretation! Like I said, I do interpret the songs (on my own), but that's why I'm a lurker in the songs thread—I'm not good at generalizing.

No, yours is great! It's probably the kind of post that someone wants to read, whereas with mine, if you don't have a real interest in the song interpretation, you probably wouldn't read through all of those words—too much.

I forgot that one in TPE—I've read it 3 times, too! Oddly enough, I took the cover off when I read it, didn't crack the spine (like I usually do with books so I can really settle into them), didn't use a highlighter or write notes (very unlike me)—all because I knew that if I met Suzanne one day, I wanted it to be in perfect condition when she signed it so that she didn't think I was a crazed slob or anything. Then I find out (here) that she loves to see everything that I usually do, but didn't on her book. She probably thinks I didn't even read it—AND I forgot my "Bullet in Flight" when I asked her to sign—I did the same thing with that—you would have thought I bought it yesterday instead of preordering it through Barnes and Noble when I knew it was coming out.

Just goes to show you—no matter what—you should always be exactly the way that you are.

I'll go back to lurking now...I've exhausted myself.

Love, Catherine

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"If we don't change the direction we are headed,
we will end up where we are going."

—Chinese Proverb

Hi Catherine, yesterday night i was reading in bed the last pages of 'Giri di parole', in particulary the conversation of Suzanne with Leonard Cohen, in which they talked about this song too. So this morning i've come to take a look to the board. You have done a great post, and you confirmed my own interpretation of the song.
best regards
ciao, Andrea

Dear Andrea,

I wish that I could speak/read in Italian, as I am sitting here with "Giri di parole' knowing that there is a book inside that I would like to tear through!

I am wondering if that interview with LC is the same interview which appeared in "The Passionate Eye." I read it so long ago, and do remember parts of the interview, but can't remember if anything about "Bad Wisdom" was there (now I'll have to give it a good scan to see)! I do remember it was a quirky kind of interview where LC kept trying to get information from Suzanne by suggesting (paraphrasing) "well, could it be this, or maybe that?" when Suzanne clearly was not going any further on a topic. Almost a last ditch effort on his part to 'tease things out of her.'

To tell you the truth, I didn't really think anyone would read this except Daniel, Stella, and Patrick because it's so long! I know that I can be "wordy" when writing—but the only way to convey what I heard in the song was to take it line by line and interpret what my own feelings on it are.

So, thank you for reading the post, you certainly are a most patient man!

Love, Catherine

---

"If we don't change the direction we are headed,
we will end up where we are going."

—Chinese Proverb

Hi all,

This is my first post in Songs threads. I've read Cat's posts and I cannot disagree _who could? It's sure the song may tell the pain of a raped child, but since a few months, because of an illness, I'm keeping 'Bad Wisdom' inside my mind every day.

I'm dealing with a mental disorder _not severe, but really disgusting. And I've suffered my ancient friends _old people, as I'm 30 the same lookings the songs tells. I do feel my innocence is stolen, you know... It's quite offensive being explored every day, not only by the doctors but by everybody around you _for if you get dangerous...

I think it's really expensive, the price to pay for some bad wisdoms.

Regards from Spain,
Ara (Blue Thing)

Hello to eneryone...

This is my first post in the songs threads too. I was fascinated by Catherine's personal explanation of the song. I would very much like to analyze the songs I hear like this but it is difficult because, as Catherine says, my view would be subjective. Maybe not so for this song but I agree with Aranzazu's post.

I 've been through a relationship, a marriage and a divorce and I still don't understand many things. For the things I understand I don't know whether it is good or bad knowledge, good or bad wisdom. I don't think people learn from their mistakes and I am very afraid that I may do the same mistakes again. And though I may understand why my ex acted the way she did, I still don't think she had the right to think or act like this. And though I understand why I acted the way I did, I find it very difficult to forgive myself first. Complete and total frustration, despair and depression.}

Anyway, Aranzazu I think it is brave of you to admit your dealing with mental disorder. What I found out during those - and these - hard times is that I personally am - and I think all of us are - walking on a thread. It is very easy to cross the single, very thin line. And many people do for a little while and then they come back to what is called sanity. There is a song by Seal - I remember this from my MTV watching years - which says "we were never going to survine unless we get a little crazy". Sad but true... I think.

Well, I got carried away.
Goodnight from a very cold Greece.

hola Aránzazu (and everyone),

Naturally, I second Christos' sentiments about your bravery in admitting this illness (and while we're there - hey Christos! looooong time...). My quick brush with the subject taught me that this is one of the worst things that can happen to anyone.

What I really wanted to say is this. your post made me think about about Bad Wisdom all over again. After years of being fairly certain I knew what the song was about, your post comes along and destroys this notion. and this is why I love reading this section of Undertow... Every once in a while I get a fresh perspective on one of the songs, someone else's perspective. And that is so rare and sweet, that I have no words to describe it.
Having said that, I have a problem fully accepting your interpretation of the song. some parts can be explained by the illness interpretation, but some are really unrelated, such as the verse that starts with "Mother your eyes have gone suddenly cold".
But then again, that's my point of view and there's only one person who can say anything that matters: http://rustedpipe.vega.net/bad_wisdom.htm ;-)

Yuval =8-)

Hi Yuval (and everyone),

When I wrote my interpretation of this song, I had never gone to the Rusted Pipe site, or knew that there was a place where (interviews, etc.), real information behind them could be obtained!

So, my interpretation comes completely from my own heart/head. I have just now read the RP interviews on this one. I still maintain that the focus of this is incest/child molestation—and while it "could be" (and is) about someone (a girl) getting more than she is ready for, I believe with that in mind, the basis of the song was formed by Suzanne. The variations on that theme are valid...but I'd be quite surprised if it were not the main inspiration, with other variations on that, as spinoffs.

Again—my view (as are most folks who post here) is very subjective. So, you are right when you say that 'there's only one person who can say anything that matters' and yet, isn't it interesting that regardless of what that one person says—we still each take these songs and form an interpretation that makes sense to us, or perhaps what we need or want it to be?

I find the songs section fascinating and love reading it as you do. But as I said above, I don't post much here, with this thread being the exception. I'm just a lurker who loves to see what others write!

Your admission of feeling fairly certain about the songs' meaning and then someone else (through their veiw) making you rethink it, is exactly what goes on for me when I come here! I've been to Rusted Pipe many times, but only to read the lyrics and see the site (which is beautiful). In going there today, I find another reason to spend time there—the interviews!

Thanks so much for reminding me of that—a wake up call is always welcomed on my end! And it is such a beautiful site, as well—chock full of information from many sources. Kudos to all who created Rusted Pipe and keep it alive.

My Best—
Catherine

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"If we don't change the direction we are headed,
we will end up where we are going."

—Chinese Proverb

>Kudos to all who created Rusted Pipe and keep it alive.

Thanks Catherine. All we did was collect information that was already out there though.

Spikey