i've never felt so acutely close to this song as i feel nowadays. i've been thinking about it also because the reporter who wrote about suzanne's concert in central park mentioned suzanne's "quiet aggression". he wasn't referring to this song specifically, but i can understand what he means or was trying to say, though i wouldn't phrase it like he has.

i'd say there is in suzanne's music a permanent need to confront, in the sense of to face or to bring face to face. and that is never really quiet (though it might be perceived as such at a glance), because it involves questioning and therefore motion of feelings, a journey or a quest of some sort. "penitent" embodies all of this.

and it puts yourself in confrontation (in the same sense as above) with all these "yous". there's the "You" in capital Y, the "you" in lower case y, the singular "you" and the plural "you". and there's even times when it feels they all, or some of them, overlap. so there's a single "i" confronting all these "yous". whenever i wrote about this song before i've put an emphasis on the struggle with the "You", not an external one, but the "You" within. but it is clear to me now that all the others are there too. so this song is almost like a prayer, a plea, a cry for direction, forgiveness and understanding, to all the "yous" that were wronged somehow. all "blindnesses, weakness and unkindnesses" done are waiting to be unbent, released, so as to allow the search "for a center" which has been lost and the "fixing [of]what is broken". and what would all these "yous" say back? "what would You/you have me do?" the "i" is "low on the ground", looks for the "trace/fingerprints", feels "faith to grow" and waits. for a "voice", a "word", a "sign". and how would the "i" respond? "would/could i obey?"

"how low does one heart go". this "one heart" has been kept silent in a spiral of anguish and it is at once a humble, questioning, resistent, defiant heart. one that asks the "yous" to recognize that sometimes confrontations are also gestures asking for love. precisely because of all of this, "penitent" is such a powerful and empowering song. and whenever i hear suzanne sing it live i feel it must give her so much release and strength to deliver it like she does, without her guitar, in a sense naked as a performer, only a body and a voice trying to assert themselves, a "fist against eternity". i know how i feel whenever i hear it, whatever the circumstance, but especially this year in portugal and london, i felt the hand of release swiftly touching me and disappear and i was in tears.

love,
fátima

Thanks Fatima for sharing all this with us. I have never thought about "you" and "You" as of singular and plural. It is something in it, I see now.

I would like to say something according to the comment which appeared on MB, about analyzing songs. I don't agree with all those who say it is unfair or useless. I think, it is real big thing to share thoughts on songs. Our comments are feedback for Suzanne (she deserves to know what her lyrics mean to us) and it always might bring new perspective for someone else. This is not the competition, but exchange of ideas and perspectives. And it is great. Fatima, your post was the first I have read from beginning to the end in ages. Thanks.

History of me and "Penitent" is a bit complicated. Maybe you know I am schizophrenic (jokes about schizophrenics allowed - I subscribed only once). When "Penitent" was released I was very ill. My mind didn't work as it works for normal people. I was thinking that Penitent was about me! I was writing to Undertow very often at that time and I dreamed that Suzanne had noticed me. This is true - I thought Penitent was written for me. My heart went really low at that time(it was almost year after my mother's death), so all fitted. Asking for forgiveness was for me a result of my posts. I said in them all my admiration for Suzanne, when she is "only" human. She might have felt confused. That was then....

This is now..... I see that song as a sign of helplessness, but at the same time sign of perversity. I concluded that "i" says too much about oneself in that song. "Don't be afraid to be weak" as I wrote 4 years ago quoting "Return to innocence" by Enigma, but... "i" has voice, but it is hard to accept all that helplessness in that song. I wished author very well and it is painful to hear that she is thinking of such self-defence and feeling low. "Quiet aggression" as a result of frustration? Maybe......

be well

Anna Maria K.

ps. Don't ask me now who is more important that who is listening or who is singing....

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"like a shadow, I am and I am not"

Dear Fatima and Anna,


This week I spoke with someone about this song, because it was at that moment one of the few things that was able to comfort me, but also was a sign of despear.
This morning, recovered in a way, I listened to Penintent, since 1 month orso, and the beauty of it was there in all its esences.
From the moment I heard this song, all essences where clear, it is/ was not different from now. Although it depends on the moods I am in, but the words have the same meaning.
After I heard the song this morning, I thought about writing Suzanne about the impact of it, but at the same moment I know there is no way to put my thankfullness into words, or share them with her in direct way, by mail. So, I didn't. But is was a reason to start my computer and look at the words/ lyrics on the board. I thought about writing something on this board, but how, and where?? Then I saw a contribution at the song-thread at the SIRAG-album. And yes there was a contribution and it was yours and the sweet contribution of Anna.
Thanks for your words Fatima, because they moslty/ almost or just do tell what I feel and think about Penitent.
Anna, how low your heart must have felt after your mother's dead and I really do believe the song has been written for you.
Thanks, as we wind up in coincidence and made our faith to grow.
Maybe it was written for me also (a bit) as I was able to be part of a rehaersel of Suzanne and band in Rotterdam. I came in and was the only listener at that time (plus a photographer) and I saw her and Ruby and the band at stage, sat down, and she started singing....Penitent. Yes I had to cry because it/ all was so beautifull!!
Suzanne, I really do think if you make people cry with this song, it is contacting/connecting (with)hearts. Also/even hearts that are frozen. With your talent for art I am so much sure you also must be only at heart at times you write a piece like this, you must have been an angel at that time, and probably you are an angel all the time you preform it. That is really your (one) off your right directions and something that is/it ask(s) from you!!

---

mi lang fi di marvelous miracle a hurricane,
fi carry mi goh a meetin stream agen

Linton Kwesi Johnson

Dear Anna Maria,

You wrote above:

"History of me and "Penitent" is a bit complicated. Maybe you know I am schizophrenic (jokes about schizophrenics allowed - I subscribed only once). When "Penitent" was released I was very ill. My mind didn't work as it works for normal people. I was thinking that Penitent was about me! I was writing to Undertow very often at that time and I dreamed that Suzanne had noticed me. This is true - I thought Penitent was written for me. My heart went really low at that time (it was almost year after my mother's death), so all fitted. Asking for forgiveness was for me a result of my posts."

Your bravery and courage to disclose both an illness and a great loss on this Message Board are beyond commendable. Both are devastation's in different ways, and yet it's quite obvious that you have come out on the other side, or they would be too painful to share.

Your openness and hard earned belief in yourself has stayed with me for the past couple of days, reminding me that we never know what anyone else is truly going through here—we only know what is posted. And rightfully so, many things remain respectfully unsaid.

Between your post and Fátima's, it's humbling and important to keep in mind that each of us have unknown struggles. They serve as strong reminders to use care and gentleness when interacting with others, as you would wish for yourself.

As I see it, both views serve as catalyst's to search for information from within first. Once you have that, the process of resolve (in broad terms), can begin. As there are usually no finite answers, achieving a sense of peace about what you, yourself, can live with, seems like the best outcome that any of us can hope for.

(* When I said "You," I mean "you in general—as in all of us," not you, in particular.)

Thank you for sharing such fragile thoughts/feelings (then and now) about "Penitent," a song which, I believe, unexpectedly applies to each and every one of us at one time or another.

Love, Catherine

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"If we don't change the direction we are headed,
we will end up where we are going."

—Chinese Proverb

Anna wrote: "My mind didn't work as it works for normal people. I was thinking that Penitent was about me! I was writing to Undertow very often at that time and I dreamed that Suzanne had noticed me."

I'd be willing to bet that on some level, most "normal" people feel that same way about many Suzanne songs. I think it's part of her appeal. Many songs are written in the 2nd person, addressed to "you", and in quite a few, Suzanne sings from the viewpoint of an underdog.

Small Blue Thing: "I am turning in your hand."

Song of David: "What's so small to you is so large to me."

Penitent: "...what would you have me do? I ask you please? I wait to hear your voice..."

But, of course as Fatima touched on, there are just as many songs where "You" are in big trouble if you hurt her.

"If I am a weapon I am pointing now at you..."

"You'll feel the disappointment when heroes go down..."

And of course we all know what happened to that soldier so long ago.

I think there's a natural temptation to sit down in the "you" seat. Some will take it more seriously than others depending on their state of mind. I know I've swooned at times as though she were a person in my life. I've felt real pain from her jabs. I guess that's why I'm here writing about her songs rather than watching the news, or balancing my checkbook.

Sit in the "you" seat, if you dare, but by all means, fasten your safety belt.

Pat,

You are on a major roll in the songs threads, my friend! I love it!

Odd to write this in the "Penitent" section (my song of perfection ), but I couldn't help noticing when you spoke of fátima's "You," that "In the Eye" from "Solitude Standing" was missing. Well, if ever there were a jab! BTW—I LOVE that song.

Of course, with everything that Suzanne has written over the years, it becomes impossible (unless you have the time to take on this kind of "project") to go through her songs and extract these "you's" and place them in categories. I just thank Suzanne that they are there to begin with.

Love, Catherine
* And I agree with you on the Hines production of SIRG—I know some have said that they consider it "overproduced"—especially "Penitent." As for myself, I like to hear Suzanne's work take on new drama from different instruments (which are not there when you see her live). This CD brought me back after NOOD— to that place where there are now very few days when a SV CD is not played at some point in time, be it day or night.

Love, Catherine

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"If we don't change the direction we are headed,
we will end up where we are going."

—Chinese Proverb

Suzanne on Penitent:
"I'm a spiritual person more than I'm a particularly religious one. So I was doing all kinds of things like casting Runes. I don't know if you know what Runes are, but they're like stones, and you can turn them over -- and you can receive guidance from them."
[...]
"And not only that, but horoscopes or anything that would give me a sense guidance, as well as praying. And so some of it was praying to a not very clearly defined sort of God. I mean, I was raised a Buddhist, so I and my family don't actually practice a Christian religion. But in this case, it was sort of like an imaginary figure that I was talking to and asking for guidance from."

I was thinking how funny it was that it is often assumed that this song has a Christian base (not here of course), while actually Suzanne's beliefs seem more pagan; casting runestones and internally looking for a deity.

Spikey

I don't think looking internally to find a diety sounds pagan - it sounds realistic. I know that Judaism believes that every person has a "piece" of a Higher G-d within each individual...

I meant more the "imagining a figure and asking for him or her for guidance" thing, this is a concept used by many pagans (like the runestones and astrology already mentioned).

As in any other song, I think we must consider 2 things. First what was Suzanne's idea when she wrote the song. Second what does the song recall to us.

About the first Suzanne has been clear in several interviews. Just check http://rustedpipe.vega.net/penitent.htm

Apart from the excerpt Spikey posted there's an interview to "The Christian Science" where Suzanne said: "Is there a God or not? What would he have me do if he existed?"


I think Suzanne said it several times, she's a spiritual person, with a sense of spirituality that goes much beyond any institutionalized religion.

Despite of Suzanne's pagan reference (casting runes), I think "penitent" reflects some Christian imagery, a kind of flirting with Christianity, that can be seen in the concept of Penitence, or in the looking at an image ("all were here before, Like me, to stare You down").

However I agree that all religions have something in common, a certain need to ask questions and search for some transcendency that guides us back to our inner self. Seeing that in "Penitent" ressonates many different things, and people with different beliefs will find some common point in the lyrics.

That's again Suzanne's universality. I don't believe in any religion, and even though, "Penitent" seems to touch some strings inside me.


José Carlos
-----------
"Are we not formed, as notes of music are,
For one another, though dissimilar?"
--Percy Bysshe Shelley

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http://www.vega.net
http://setlists.vega.net
http://rustedpipe.vega.net

José you're no fun anymore! Don't you see I was trying to cause a riot to break the silence of the Tow? And now you come with such a perfect rationalized answer.

;) Spikes

That's my job Spikey, to cut you the fun

Just see the boredom that comes next!

J.C.

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http://www.vega.net
http://setlists.vega.net
http://rustedpipe.vega.net

Dear folks,

A cheater and poser at heart (but getting better), I did not read this full thread.  I liked what Anku had to say in the first comment.  If Suzanne indeed has regrets about the way she's written in the past (and how common is this for a songwriter?  Pretty darn common) -- I can definitely relate.  Years before I was a poser, I was just a liar.

I kind of thought she was criticizing the person she was making penance to -- maybe it has been established that she was not -- but I took my own meaning from it, her asking "what would you have me do", like a parishioner before a harsh priest, asking -- come on, what, really, do you want me to do here?

In that vein, I wrote a song about my struggles with my "interpretations" of what God wants of me, oftentimes harsh interpretations.  It's on the Songwriter's Forum.

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"Every dream has a name, and names tell your story" -- David Byrne

"Looking for your fingerprints, I find them in coincidence"

 What a great line.  When odd things start happening, there is definitely some higher meaning, even if its kind of scary sometimes. 

 - Special Agent Gumboots

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The wind kicks up with the smell of rain
The kids are gone but the souls remain