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Hungary protests
Last post Tue, Apr 01 2008, 7:16 AM by ZZZoltan. 66 replies.
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Joined on 04-25-2006
Sussex UK
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Fri, Mar 16 2007, 11:41 AM
dear Chris and all,
Thanks for the attention!
Yesterday there were different commemoration events of 1848 March 15 (outbreak of war for independence).
I was at the peaceful Fidesz commemoration which staterd at 4 pm. The stage was at Elizateth's bridge (pest side), and the crowd was at least 200 thousand people, and fulfilled a very big part of Rakoczi road, even after Astoria!!! It was quite a special moment, showing that people are not afraid, and dare to stand up for their right to celebrate, and go into the street, despite all (MSZP-SZDSZ)governmental attempts, to intimidate people! Fidesz organizers, as usual, did their security job very well, there was no incident there. There were international speakers delivering a speech too, like Lithuanian Vitautas Landsbergis, a key fugure in the Baltic changes in the early 90s, the Italian vice president of Europe Parliament's People's Party. International supervisors were present too in large number, to report in case of any violence did to the peaceful crowd by the police.
Even the official Hungarian news agency , MTI reported 200 thousand people, but later I heard that Fidesz organizers said the number was quarter a million, so 250 thousand people. Anyway, the most important thing is that poeple dare to go into the street and commemorate and protest peacefully! So it was clear, if police don't attack, peace is there.
The huge crowd went home peacefully!!
then, later in the evening the news came that there were fights between radical demonstrators and police. The location of these fight s were different and far from the Fidesz commemoration place. I saw the pics on tv, and as generally agreed, police were acting in a different way from last year! They didn't use rubber bullet, and wore identification number. Their weapons were teargas and water canon.
There are teories why the fights in the evening started again:
1. mainly initiated by the fact that the police caught and arrested an extreme group leader in the morning of March 15, Budahazy Gyorgy, which activated his supporters during the day(2 thousand people , at the most, but rather between 1000-1500 people, i guess) The police had been 'searhing' for him since September last year. His supporters learning about his arrest, which strangely, the police well publicized on media, went to free him.
2. There are these radical people, mixing with little extreme groups, whose aim have been to start violence, call attention, and fight, in any way. Their weapons were setting fire to different litterbins and telephone boxes, construction panels, and using them as barricades. They also used glass bullets shot from a special home made instrument , composed of wood and rubber ribbons, (which children use to shoot birds, for example (csuzli in Hungarian).
Anyway, as i said , police action against these groups was quite different from the autumn ones, they were more human, and i hear that about 5 radical demontsrators, and 4-5 policemen got hurt in the evening fights.
During the day of March 15, there were different commemorations. In the morning, there was one at Kossuth square (behind the still existing iron fence araound the parliament, what is more, the police built an additional one). World wide infamous liar prime minister, Gyurcsany Ferenc (BBC at the beginning of 2007 awarded him with the title of the 2nd most stupid person of 2006, the first one being Dick Cheney, and third being the wife of Tony Blair). So, this (temporary)prime minister, Gyurcsany , unusually didn't make any speech on the comemoration day of March 15, just stood at different state, nor did his fellow government ministers. The usual state commemoration in front of the national museum was was also scandalous, but not because of the radical groups welcoming Gyurcsany there with a storm of whistles and swear words (eg.Gyurcsany takarodj - Gyurcsany fuck off), but the program's organizing. This was repeated when at Batthyany forever candle, no minister made a speech, and Gyurcsany didn't even go there to place the wreath of memory there for the martyr prime minister of the 1848 revolution. Only one of his ministers, the 'liberal' Molnar Lajos went there, but he was too afraid of the 20 or so noisy and whistling protesters (he was called 'Dr.Mengele' because of his 'reforms' in the 'health care' field there by those at present) but didn't dare to get out of his car.
Later, at 1 pm. the Lord Mayor (calls himself 'liberal') Demszky Gabor delivered a usual speech in the name of Budapest at statue of Petofi, a historical place. He had to be protected by body guards with folding umbrellas as he was welcomed by a 500 member radical group
with eggs and fruits. It was televised live on state Hungarian television, his voice was quite low, and got hoarse by the middle of his speech, upon the fact that , despite the amplification, the protesting crowd present was louder. One egg hit the target, so his dress showed the content of one egg... Anyway , Gyurcsany and his wife and some government members were there too. Demszky, with his arrogant speech just gave additional fuel to the noisy radical protesters, and the theater -lke performance too, which had nothing to do with 1848 , the commemoration, so people generally got disgusted by that program in front of the TV.
Anyway, Fidesz comdemned the Lord Mayor being thrown by eggs by the radical group members, saying it was not fair to the commemoration. Anyway, these groups had many Arpad flags, and 1848 was about the Hungarian tri-color flag, and the national tricolour cockage, so the national colours, and not the Arpad flag.
The Fidesz commemoration started at 4 pm, and Fidesz leaders in the press , days before asked their supporters not to bring any party flag to the commemoration, only the tri-colour national flag, as the symbol of the 1848 revolution and war for independence. (still some Arpad flags were there visible, amongs the national (red ,white, green)tricolour flags, but as experts say, you can't 'discriminate' people, or shut out, if they want to go there with that. There is freedom of thoughts, if they want to do that, and as the oroginal Arpad flag officially doesn't represent (or considered ) any tyrant symbol, unlike the well-visibly modified one during WWII, there is no problem with that, even if it doesn't suit the atmostphere of 1848.
Anyway, there was a very important message given by Fidesz leader Orban Viktor, who was the last speaker at the Fidesz commemoration in front of 200 thousand people. He said that people should keep the law, and that the last legal way in the hand of people to get rid of the Gyurcsany government, and the new, arrogant and incompetent aristocracy they represent, is the success of referendum which is due later this year, in the autumn or winter. The referendum officially will be, it's a fact, and this is the only way to make the government see that people generally don't like their working, no matter they stand on the right or left field. However, if the Gyurcsany government won't resign after that referendum due late autumn this year, people will have all the right to chase them, making them 'run away' as fast as possible!
Anyway, unlike in the past,some days ago New York Times and International Herald Tribune attacked Gyurcsany in articles. It's a positive sign, and hoping that the infamous Hungarian liar prime minister Gyurcsany will consider the 'new' messages as well.
have a nice day!
best wishes,
Zoli
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Fri, Mar 16 2007, 1:19 PM
just an interesting addition: actually, Gyurcsany made a speech in the evening of March 15 (while the fights were) indoors at an event-followed by classical music. But not at the usual state commemoration events during the day! Also, it's interesting that the extreme group leader, Budahazy Gyorgy was caught only on the day of March 15, despite the fact for half a year he had been already wanted by the police, and he could make speeches free, well-visibly, close to police stations, and police did nothing to catch him earlier,- only yesterday. The question automatically arises: why on March 15, why not half a year ago,or any time later, any other time between. There must have been a special interest about that...Somebody's interest.
Zoli
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Tue, Mar 20 2007, 8:32 PM
On Sunday during the night, the police cleared the iron fence from around the parliament in Budapest. It's a kind of victory for those who opposed that, and Fidesz and KDNP parliament opposition would like to see a legal investigation against those who were responsible for setting up and keeping the illegal iron fence on Kossuth square.
Anyway, at the weekend in Hungary, just like all around the world, there were NO WAR protests. On Heroes square for example, people formed the symbol of peace,- a very big one- holding candles. In the Monday issue of Magyar Nemzet there is a big photo of that and report on front page, and also a detailed report about the world-wide protests inside.
Zoli
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Joined on 03-25-2007
Budapest, Hungary
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Wed, Mar 28 2007, 3:24 AM
hi everyone, hi everyone,On the covers of Tuesday papers in Hungary there's the news of Demcsak Zsuzsa, the government spokeswoman candidate 'resigning' from before being 'appointed', saying she wouldn't take this post now in the 'changed' climate around her about that. In fact, there has been a big scandal that Gyurcsany(world infamous liar 'socialist' Prime Minister of Hungary ) and his circle mentioned her before as the only possible new government spokeswoman candidate. Demcsak Zsuzsa is a 28 -year- old commercial tv media personality, and model too. Many considered her erotic photos not matching a position like that, but the real scandal started when this rich woman turned out to have used dispising words , sentence about the poor in her blog on her website! Magyar Nemzet paper published her infamous words (several days ago) in which she looks down on the poor. Magyar Nemzet also found out that her husband and she have had many links to maffia- like groups in business, (though she first tried to defend herself from the 'false accusations'). However it was evident that she couldn't defent her view in the storm of different facts. Upon the facts coming to daylight, several government party members and public figures in press started criticising the new candidate (Demcsak Zsuzsa) for the government spokeswoman post, and that they thought it would be disadvantageous for the government parties, especially MSZP (the socialists). Now that she refrained from candidacy for spokeswoman, Gyurcsany still has trust in her, so he feels sorry about her decision. Anyway, it seems, Demcsak was the direct candidate of Gyurcsany and his tight circle, and not the majority of the socialist party. The fact that she 'resigned', and not others 'redirected' her is also interesting, as she till 2 days ago said she would take the job in any way. However there had been a national security supervising filter procedure about her for the government spokeswoman post, and many think that she was 'advised' to give up candidacy actually. Anyway, the fact that Gyurcsany still thinks she was the right person for the job, implies something. The problem is that the new aristocracy Gyurcsany circle think everything was / is fine with somene like Demcsak, and that they at all thought of someone who looks down on the poor! Maybe a writer could summarise that new aristocratic attitude in a way: There is always more misery among the lower classes than there is
humanity in the higher.
- Victor Hugo There is always more misery among the lower classes than there is
humanity in the higher.
- Victor Hugohoping everyone is ok. best wishes, Zoli ps: it seems i don't get posts via email, but i guess if that works later, it will be easier. Nicole, in the old undertow(the previous) you could also go directly to threads and then post there. Even if it's not possible to send in messages via email, this form would be not bad at all -directly going to a thread. I will see what i can do with my settings for email notifications(it seems it's already set to that, but then i should get the undertow posts via email- which does not seem to be the case now...)
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Joined on 03-25-2007
Budapest, Hungary
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Thu, Apr 12 2007, 7:20 PM
hi everyone, the 'latest' news: about a week ago a 58 year old woman, a Fidesz local government representative, Balla Irma was beaten to death in her home in Debrecen, (a big town in the south-east of Hungary). Everybody is shocked by the violence, her death, the committer(s) are still 'unknown' . In February, after a big fire severely damaged many flats in a housing estate in Debrecen, she volunteered and took the job to raise money for the poor, unlucky dwellers who couldn't afford to buy new flats, or redecorate their seriously damaged old homes. Wondering what result the police investigation will show...This kind of violence, just like others, is quite disturbing. Some days ago a 67 year old man died in an ambulance car, because of the 'socialist-liberal'(MSZP-SZDSZ) reform.He was taken to the hospital in Hodmezovasarhely, but there, according to 'reform' dictated rules by the dictators (MSZP-SZDSZ Gyurcsany government), according to the new health law, it is not allowed to treat someone in a hospital which is not the 'closest' to his place. So he had to be redirected' and taken 30 kms away to another place, and his condition couldn't bear that, died in the ambulance car. As practice shows, reform oriented (oppressive) Hungarian 'socialist-liberal' mind is quite insensitive, sympathy-free in social issues, this unfortunate man seems to be the first victim of the changes. The Gyurcsany government's incompetency is advancing without mask. Anyway, Molnar Lajos, SZDSZ ('liberal') health minister handed in his resignation last week, which surprised everyone, even the government parties. Actually he should have done that long before, upon protest 'requests'. Now there are candidates to replace him... SZDSZ ('liberal' party) had its party president election at the end of March, and there were two candidates: Koka Janos, who is a minister in the government, world infamous Hungarian liar prime minister Gyurcsany brought him into the government some years ago , generally considered a Gyurcsany figure. He joined SZDSZ only a year ago, which secured him to run for the party presidency. He doesn't know much about real politics and consequences, also belongs to the new aristocracy (quite rich). The other candidate was Fodor Gabor, who started his political activity in Fidesz 20 years ago, and joined SZDSZ in 1993. He has great experience, and sense of freedom and human rights. He thinks SZDSZ have made big mistakes since 1996, and that's why their voters are fewer and fewer at elections, the party getting in the parliament only on the edge of the parliament limit. (SZDSZ one time, was the second largest party in Hungary). Fodor said if he was elected, he would revisit certain issues with MSZP about the coalition, and also that a liberal party should be open to all parties in the political field, except extreme ones, so he would sit down and discuss issues with the opposition, as the present alienated situation must be solved. Everyone knew that the party election about the party president would decide the direction of SZDSZ, and many thought that with Koka the party won't have any chance to get in the parliament next time, what is more, the party would miss its final chance to show anything about traditional liberalism (SZDSZ EU parliament member, Szent-Ivanyi Istvan supported Fodor Gabor). Both Szent-Ivanyi and Fodor condemned the violence caused by the police in the autumn against peaceful people in the street. SZDSZ party election for presidency was quite interesting, as to everyone's surprise, the first round was 377 : 377, so it was quite close. there was a next round, where the whole 'secret' voting was repeated, but by that time, Koka managed to invite 'newcomers' by phone, as it was announced, so finally he won by 13 votes. Anyway, as i heard, in party voting like that, it's also important to see how many are not present, so doesn't go to the scene of voting.(i heard this number was over 100). As for me, I would have been happy if Fodor Gabor had won, as then there could have been some gleam of hope of talks between SZDSZ and the opposition, so that way , to a certain extent, there would have been some chance to 'ease' the tension and discuss issues. Many experts say that with Koka, traditional liberal issues like human rights and freedom will forever die out from SZDSZ. Fodor could have taken SZDSZ back to a 'normal' track they missed in the mid 90s. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there will be a very important referendum sometime in the autumn or winter, and there are already some issues officially included on the list. However, OVB, the Nationwide Election Committee, which decides about the things to be included at the referendum, is behaving 'strangely', to say the least. Two key issues that concerns a lot of people are the new law 'visit fee' and health care, and tuition fee, and despite the Constitutional Court rejecting OVB decision about rejecting the two mentioned issues that Fidesz would like to include on the referendum list, refuses to carry out , and says that Fidesz raised issues are against the 'reforms'. Szigeti Peter is the leader of OVB, an admitted Marxist, a fan of new aristocrat Gyurcsany. Their interests are the same, just like the majority of the members of OVB, they represent the interests of MSZP-SZDSZ government. (nearly all in the many cases in the past years OVB decided for the harm of Fidesz, though Constitutional Court later changed OVB decisions, and pointed out that Fidesz was right in the questioned issues). So, despite OVB acts against constitution, not obeying the Constitutional Court's clear decisions that pointed out that OVB must include the two mentioned issues on the referendum list as well, it seems that Gyurcsany's hand is long enough... It's against constitution! Just some pieces of common violations in Hungary. Nothing much... best wishes to all, Zoli
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Joined on 03-25-2007
Budapest, Hungary
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Tue, Apr 17 2007, 8:43 AM
Not long ago there was a program on Echo Tv in Hungary with the participation of a solicitor, the head of the October 23 civilian committee lawyers', Morvai Krisztina, and some victims of police terror in the autumn of 2006 in Hungary. Hungary's finest and most wanted entertainer, Fabry Sandor was there too in the studio, but without any humorous tone, or mood, comparing his cases with the police in the 70s when he was taken to the police station with those in the autumn of 2006, and said even the communist police didn't dare to do things like that with civilians, they didn't go that far with violence. The committee has a website where they have been collecting pieces of evidence of the police terror in 2006, and show the strange violence cases against peaceful citizens, which heavily violated human rights. It is available in English as well, click on the British flag on the left, after scrolling down.www.oktober23bizottsag.hu there is another site available in English too, where there is a documentary film, made by Pesty Laszlo. www.pestylaszlo.hu On Echo Tv in the program , as i said, there were innocent victims at present as well, and some of them are still under court trial. Many times these unfortunately people have to defend themselves against the false statements of 10-12 policemen,against those policemen who committed the violence against them. In case of one of them, the victim was successful, as right before 6-8 policemen attacked him in the street in the autumn, he met two American journalists, who later justified at court as wittnesses that the man was not a criminal or such(but it was a long procedure as the police didn't like that way of justification, tried everything).Another victim, a peaceful man was caught by group of policemen near Astoria on 23 October ,last year, without any word they attacked him, and took him to the ground, surrounded him while two or three were beating him, and thus his fingers and other bones were broken. He was not violent at all, and the policemen there told him that they would kill him at once, but for sure at the police station.He heard there that when 'tired' police troops arrived at the station where he was, the one who were sent to replace them were told the arriving ones that they 'had lost' several police lives, and by that made them be angry. To me it seems a well organized crime, where the thread must lead somewhere... A girl and his friend were attacked by the police on September 21 2006, when they were trying to find shelter in a doorway. They were beaten by the police and taken into Magyar Radio's building yard, where they were made to get undressed to naked, and tortured. There are at least 10 policemen saying she and her friendare criminals, and she will have the court case soon. They were treated as beast by the police (those who didn't wear identification number, but now want to 'punish' again with their false statements against the unfortunate victims. She doesn't know how she could continue her school studies in the midst ofthreats from the police. One of the most shocking cases maybe is the one of a university student, F.Gabor(his fields are Turkish and history).He was a passer- by at Nyugati square on September 21, 2006, when 10 policemen suddenly surrounded him, took him to the ground and started beating him. 10 policemen were there to surround him while his caught and the beating happened and taken away. Despite very clear, authentic, good amateur video recording the police terror, violence against him at Nyugati, the police don't want that to used as any proof against the policemen there. A gleam of hope is that there are more and more cases now, where trials, investigations started against policemen of autumn police terror. So far there are 39 of them, and despite the clear recordings of evidence ,it's difficult as they were not wearing idenfication number in the autumn at times of their violence. Still a solicitor says these state police criminals will be punished. Don't forget to look at the accumulated facts of violence from the autumn at: www.oktober23bizottsag.hu and www.pestylaszlo.hu Zoli
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Joined on 03-25-2007
Budapest, Hungary
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Tue, May 22 2007, 10:59 AM
dear all, Please protest against the Slovakian government and authorities' shameful and shocking treatment to Malina Hedvig, the girl who belongs to ethnic Hungarian minority in Slovakia, and who was beaten by two Slovakian men last year , because of her Hungarian use of language in Slovakia, on the scene. Her case was largely covered in international press as well last year. Now the Slovakian government says she 'made up the story', it didn't happen, and in fact 'beaten herself'. They are pressing towards false evidence creation at state level, to put her into prison. In Hungary all political parties and the public condemn the frightening push of the Slovakian government and authorities into that nationalist way, the way Slovakia treats the her sad, and shocking case, sayinng 'it didn't happen at all'. It's just another example of ethnic violence,in a way, i guess,- now on organized Slovakian state level! Stand up for Malina Hedvig! Thanks in advance! Zoli
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Joined on 03-25-2007
Budapest, Hungary
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Thu, Jul 19 2007, 6:09 AM
some recent news from Hungary: while the cold war like conflict between Britain and Russia has been going on, former Hungarian Foreign Minister(till spring 1990) and later Prime Minister (MSZP, 1994-1998) Horn Gyula , on his 75th birthday, 10 days ago, said that in 1956 he, as a 'pufajkas' leader, (feared elite military group of the communist regime) defended a fair system, against 'criminal mobs' (even said this in an interview earlier he gave to German paper Die Welt). Also, he said 1956 was a counter-revolution. Michail Gorbachev from Russia was also present, and he said 'in 1956 it was fair and just from the side of Russia to intervene'. The preliminaries of the story is that our respected head of state, Solyom Laszlo refused the infamous liar prime minister of Hungary, Gyurcsany's idea and request to award Horn Gyula on the occasion of his 75th birthday with the highest Hungarian state award. Solyom thinks Horn can't deserve it for his negative deeds in 1956, and especially, as he still considers 1956 a 'counter-revolution' and thinks his dees protecting the communist regime was fair. It's against the constitution. The surprise was that Gyurcsany thought it was ok. He still does. On the day of Horn's birthday, 10 days ago, the press was invited, except Magyar Nemzet, Hir TV and Magyar Hirlap, and in public Horn said to the award refusal by Solyom : 'A jo nenikéjét / his .... aunt' (jo means good in Hungarian, but this is a special context where it means a very negative thing, like swearing). Horn, with his speech on the birthday ceremony, together with Gorbachev praising the 1956 Soviet intervention in Hungary, surprised the media, and the big part of media present at the event was silent for several days about these words by both Horn and Gorbachev. SZDSZ(the liberals) , the smaller government party of the MSZP-SZDSZ coalition, together with the opposition parties of Fidesz, KDNP, and MDF, officially called MSZP(the socialists) for rejecting what both Horn and Gorbachev said publicly about 1956 revolution (as it was a public event with majority of media and many invited(foreign too) guests there. It was quite normal from SZDSZ side,as a government party, but MSZP acted just willy -nilly. MSZP itself seemed rather confused than shocked by the happenings. The biased media, even MTI(Hungarian nes agency) tried to hide the uncomfortable news of the party, but the news was leaked with video recordings-by not so biased media members). Finally, MSZP officially rejected what Gorbachev said, but about Horn the situation is not that evident. Lendvai Ildiko, MSZP fraction leader in the parliament said Horn did many good things, but in 1956 he stood on the wrong side, and he didn't know about it. (The fact is that Horn still praises his deeds - he was given special award in 1957 by the state, as it turned out, for his deeds in 1956, as the leader of the special elite group, which tortured and persecuted many civilians after 1956 revolution was put down, and in 1957 -interestingly, Horn doesn't mention his 1957 'special award' for his 'deeds' in his official biography. Interestigly, some years ago, Nemeth Miklos, the reform MSZP prime minister at the time of transition,(till the first free elections in 1990) said Horn, as a Foreign Minister made big impression on Germans by opening the Iron Curtain for East Germans before the Berlin Wall fell, but it's good to know that the real military power was actually in Horn's hand(as a Foreign Minister...), and not the real reformers, like him,Nemeth Miklos , Pozsgay Imre, or Szuros Matyas(temporary head of state) who were actually pressing for the real democratic changes. These 3 main figures, Nemeth, Pozsgay and Szuros, have already left MSZP since then, because of the party being undemocratic. Many of the foreign guests invited to Horn's birthday party possibly doen't know about that. None of the 3 mentioned former MSZP politicians were invited to Horn's birthday party. Horn said in interview to MTI(Hungarian news agency): 'We (MSZP) will win the 2010 elections'. Both MSZP (the socialists) and SZDSZ(the liberals) currently are very weak at polls, their supports(especially MSZP) have never been so down. SZDSZ couldn't get into the parliament with 2-3 % of the votes. best wishes, Zoli
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Joined on 03-25-2007
Budapest, Hungary
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Sun, Sep 23 2007, 12:35 PM
dear All, Please protest against the extreme Slovakian nationalist attitude against Hungarians. The Slovakian parliament some days ago in a parliamentary voting confirmed the infamous and nationalist 'Benes declarations', so the Slovakian parties (except MKP, the Hungarian minority party there) voted for the 'modern' confirmation of the old Benes declarations which discriminated and forced Hungarians out of Slovakia. This 'modern confirmation' in the Slovakian parliament was put forward by extreme slovakian nationalist, Jan Slota's party. As I hear, even the slovakian historians are greatly surprised why this 'modern confirmation' of the old , Benes declarations was necessary. As Hungary's respected Head of State, Solyom Laszlo said, it seemed there could have been some mutual peace reached by new declarations, and now , to the hand of peace this slap to Hungarians came by the slovakian parliament's vote and decision. The Benes declarations after the war enabled Slovakia to get the houses of Hungarians in the area, forcing them out from there, simply showing the 'desired' direction to Hungary from the land they had been born. Also, the extreme nationalist attitide, discriminating Hungarian minority still living in Slovakia, from time to time violates European, generally accepted rules. They would like to prescribe 'only Slovakian' inscriptions, like in case of village names, towns, even where Hungarians in the majority in Slovakia (in Felvidek area). What is more, the Slovakian authorities tried to forge the results of the case of Hungarian Malina Hedvig, who was beaten in Slovakia by two slovak nationalist skinheads last year, why she was speaking in Hungarian in Slovakia. As it turned out, the Slovakian authorities deliberately tried to misled the Slovakian public, forging the official statement words of Malina Hedvig about the violence made against her, by miscopying them into the police book. Recently even the former Slovakian police head, and Supreme Court head said something was strange about the malina Hedvig file and case, and that the Slovakian side was partial , against her, covering the truth. The Slovakian authorities formerlywanted to punish Malina Hedvig , threatening her with possible years in prison, as they said she just invented the story of her beating by the two slovakian people, and that she was beaten at all - meaning they were pressing for the extreme idea that she 'beaten herself'. The bloody photos of Malina Hedvig speak for themselves, her wounds are quite shocking in the pics. Please protest against Slovakia's emerging , very dangerous nationalism, which goes back to the times of Benes declaration, violating general human and minority rights!!! Thanks very much in advance!! I guess this discriminating attitude should not be accepted in the world, especially from a EU member state. Maybe a solution could be if Slovakia's EU membership is suspended till Slovakia 'gets back' to certain EU norms... Thanks for reading this and helping in any way! best wishes, Zoli
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Thu, Sep 27 2007, 4:06 AM
I don't get anything to all you're posting. You're from an EU/EC country and I haven't heard anything about what you're talking about in the press. To my knowledge, Hungary is not (yet or anymore) a dictature. I think your posts do not belong to this forum. Make a link to you own personal blog but don't write stuff nobody can verify.
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Joined on 03-25-2007
Budapest, Hungary
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Thu, Sep 27 2007, 8:50 AM
Hi everyone, CasparHauser, I see you are quite satisfied with certain things, happenings in the world that you don't hear about...,- like the puzzling situation in Hungary, or Slovakia, and not interested to hear about bad, or badly working democracies. But there are people who are, and thanks to them certain things can improve, the chance is there, especially in the field of human rights!! Casparhauser, I'm glad to hear everything is ok in the country where you live. Anyway, now Hungary is a bad democracy, and not dictatorship, of course. Sometimes certain lines, though, are obscure. CasparHauser, there is no problem if you personally don't intend to 'learn about' certain dirty issues, -how I see and feel them,- that you think everything is normal in the world, not reading ceratin issues about my country, Hungary, for example.It's up to you, your choice! Not my business! Then you don't open the 'disturbing' thread,and don't read what you are not interested in, and that's all, so simple, I guess. Anyway, for others interested: I should have written something about Hungary in the past days,but sadly, I have been swamped. There are dirty things going on in a line with 'socialist' politicians, scandals why they police didn't arrest a legally several years' prison sentenced socialist at once, when HirTV detected his location -only 3 hours later the police went to catch him, despite HirTV showedpictures of him there. And other 'democratic ways'...Partial, government biased attitude, would be impossible, unacceptable in Germany, or England, just mentioning EU countries and norms. Something you may not read about... CasparHauser, fortunately, there are those people here, like Suzanne, who keep an eye on the world, and thus read my posts too(here or in email). It not 'me' who is important about these issues, but the issues which speak for themselves, about bad democracy, or dirty things which consequently shouldn't be as they are. There are people I respect for this,like Suzanne, next to her special singer/songwriter career! As Suzanne herself also supports Amnesty, and at some point was wearing a special T-Shirt featuring opposition leader,Aung San Suu Kyi on her Heroes Square concert in Budapest on stage, -in front of half a million people-, it's evident that Suzanne, like me, has been keeping an eye on the protest and happenings in Burma. I wrote a text and and sent along with the next short poem about the brave protesters in Burma to BBC World Have Your Say radio program blog on BBC website, which was posted there. Hoping their aims will finally be fulfilled!! Protest in Burma Now tears have rubbed fear While faith is giving you gear There's no further barrier Your wind is rising clear. (c) Zed Zee Zoltan best wishes to all, Zoli I wrote a text and and sent along with the next short poem about the brave protesters in Burma to BBC World Have Your Say radio program blog on BBC website, which was posted there. Hoping their aims will finally be fulfilled!! Protest in Burma Now tears have rubbed fear While faith is giving you gear There's no further barrier Your wind is rising clear. (c) Zed Zee Zoltan best wishes to all, Zoli
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Thu, Sep 27 2007, 1:10 PM
I think the way you're mixing things up here, reinterpreting my words to make them mean what you want them to mean is quite self-speaking. You're talking about Burma, about Hungary, about people who don't want to hear things about the world they live in (quite different problematics, quite different things). It shows to me how easy it is for you to create information from non-existing facts or truth coming from your imagination. You have no idea about my political involvement; you don't know the situation in the country I live in (or if you do, you wouldn't call it "perfect democracy"). My point is that I like and admire people politically engaged, because politics is something which belong to all of us. It would be quite interesting to read what you say about Hungary if it would not be posted like another propaganda message from nowhere. This is not the best way to make a political message go through. I would totally understand and support the use of Suzanne's forum for just cause, like Amnesty Int'l or assistance to Burma. But the message has to be clear and based on established facts. I don't see the point in using Suzanne Vega's forum for political propaganda. But of course, don't misunderstand me: this is only my opinion. I'm not moderator or administrator on this forum, I'm only entitled to have an opinion on what's written. You got mine. The other posters got it too. It's called democracy.
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Joined on 03-25-2007
Budapest, Hungary
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Thu, Sep 27 2007, 2:49 PM
CasparHauser, I don't think I'm mixing up things here. This is not a game either. Cold reality. These are really serious issues, and times. Your 'first' post, to me seemed a bit ironic, and mine may have had that tone too, in a way. I wrote it that way, upon yours, as I felt your post had to be answered that way, to clear something. These issues cut into the flesh. Today there, tomorrow somewhere else, this is the 'modern' world. If you stand up for certain rights, and follow, keep the law, it's not campaigning! And be sure I will speak up every single time, when evident dirt is in the way! Facts speak for themselves -when they come to daylight. best, Zoli
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Fri, Sep 28 2007, 3:36 AM
 ZZZoltan: CasparHauser, I don't think I'm mixing up things here. This is not a game either. Cold reality. These are really serious issues, and times. Your 'first' post, to me seemed a bit ironic, and mine may have had that tone too, in a way. I wrote it that way, upon yours, as I felt your post had to be answered that way, to clear something. These issues cut into the flesh. Today there, tomorrow somewhere else, this is the 'modern' world. If you stand up for certain rights, and follow, keep the law, it's not campaigning! And be sure I will speak up every single time, when evident dirt is in the way! Facts speak for themselves -when they come to daylight. best, Zoli
My first post wasn't ironic. I think a good way to improve your posts if you wish to deal with those - indeed quite important - matters on this forum, would be: 1° to split the issues (Hungary / Burma / Poland / etc.) 2° to make text shorter and stronger 3° to make reference to independant sources. I admit I'm not updated when it comes to the current situation with Hungary. I work with Hungarian officials from time to time and wasn't aware the political situation was as bad as you described it. To me, Poland is another issue in EU. This bicephal heading of the State worries me very much, as EU citizen. But I agree, that doesn't mean the situation in other EU or non-EU countries is not relevant. Just make it more focused when you talk about a situation.
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