Here's an online video of Penitent from Philadelphia on May 31, 2003

http://homepage.mac.com/mooncusser/Vega/iMovieThea ter87.html

If usually in every song is a grain of truth and a bunch of lies, is this true rule in Penitent, I wonder.

I was very touched by these words. As never I found that somehow Suzanne is unhappy with her past. It is not my bussines and she said herself she can't tell us what she found , but I would be very concern if this meant that Suzanne regrets her career. I can say it would be very painful for me. I admire Suzanne for these words. they are brave , but dream this is this bunch of lies in Penitent. Maybe, she thinks her songs are too entertaining. Yes, they are, but at the same time they are so deep and never spoken to the end, what makes them interesting.

She said once that she writes for people not for herself, what struck me. It seems that she wants reward in a meaning of listener attention. But it is not good to write and think of reward. This is a mistake. If avenues which belongs to Suzanne are not enough rewarding, what she dream of? Please, Suzanne write for yourself as often as you can. We will witness your fulfillment.

all the best

Anna Maria K.

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"like a shadow, I am and I am not"

Dear Anna,

> If usually in every song is a grain of truth and a bunch of lies, is this true rule in Penitent, I wonder.

I recall Suzanne quoting Leonard Cohen about truth or lies in songs, when he says more or less that he does what he has to do for the songs to work.

Now, this is more than writing for oneself, or writing for the others. It's writing for the song!!!


As for Suzanne, I have no idea of what goes in her mind when she writes a song, but I always believed Suzanne uses something personal as a departing point, and then builds a story/situation about it. Those stories/situations don't have to be literally true (the Queen and the Soldier don't literally exist), but they are nonetheless a vehicle to transmit ideas or feelings that come from Suzanne, and are, from that point of view, Suzanne's inner truth.

By not choosing private stories to convey internal landscapes, Suzanne is able to talk (sing) to us about herself, making us think she is talking about us. This is to me Suzanne's poetry greatest achievement.

... At least that's how Suzanne "caught" me


> I was very touched by these words. As never I found that somehow Suzanne is unhappy with her past.

If you are still talking about Penitent, I wouldn't take such strong conclusions. And I don't feel as surprised as you with the expressed doubts and uncertainties.

I think it's only natural to need to look back and to question, to doubt, and to fight to have our life making sense. We all do that, even if the ways for that internal dialogue can be as many as the number of human beings. Religion might be one way, but there are surely many others.

I can perfectly imagine Suzanne pondering about unresolved parts of her past, and constantly questioning herself about her steps. I think it's a very positive attitude. To do it requires intelligence, courage, and a very good knowledge of oneself.

To me Suzanne's "Passionate Eye" is first of all an insightful eye, and not only about what happens on the outside.


To you Anna, I wanted to add that maybe the people you see as secure and strong, are not those who never have doubts, but those who can deal with their doubts in an honest way.

It is believing that Penitent is a very honest way of dealing with some unresolved part of one's life, that makes me feel the song as if written for me (in the sense I explained before), and why I think so many people fell immediately in love with it.

Your friend,
José Carlos

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http://www.vega.net
http://setlists.vega.net
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Dear Jose Carlos,

Thanks for replay. Talking about good knowledge about myself, I am awful extrovert. I can say other people's opinions are very important for me - if not more important then my own. ). Thanks for yours !

I have mixed opinions about issue of writing for critics (listener is the best critic) or oneself. I can't find Suzanne's words again. She probably said that she writes for entertaining other people than entertaining herself. I was delighted by these words and I found them so true. Then a few days later I heard that one poet felt that he was destroying himself, because he had been writing for critics in the past. He felt good when he began writing for himself. I don't know what to think now. I am not a writer, but somehow I feel that fulfillment is the most important. And I can't understand writing song for a song. It is like eating only for eating and forgetting about what is food for (I am overweight by the way, but because of medication I take, not eating for eating) )

I can understand how it is to deal with ones past and finding weaknesses. I agree, this needs intelligence but, I dare to say, it is bravery to sing this in public (I still think about first stanza and speaking in the first person in that song). Suzanne said once that artist should be unpredictable. So it was the story in Penitent for me. I can accept this song only if Suzanne wrote this song for herself. I dream Suzanne will explore farther. )

I agree, too that Suzanne is insightful writer. She creates stories and is honest.

Be well

Anna Maria K.

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"like a shadow, I am and I am not"

The first sentences about opinions have more to do with a self-monitoring than with a extraversion scale.

(Right?)

Spikey

This song was so extremely powerful and spiritually brave, but for God's sake it was so disgustingly overproduced. At first listen, I thought this matched "Rosemary" for greatness, but then got tired of it really quick. Rupert Hine really killed this song.

You know, I only JUUUUUST picked up this album (last weekend, in fact). The songs sound a little more processed. It's different (in a good way). Kinda like how the 99.5 album was different from her first. I'm very happy I picked it up...even though it was at a pretty late date.

I recently heard Sarah McLachlan's Fallen, and it reminds me in a certain way of Penitent.
Both are about making mistakes, both have a similar, contemplative sound, both are very emotional (perhaps just to my ears). But Fallen gives me this feeling that it is written for the masses, i.e. the general public that can see that they make mistakes, and should learn from them, but without the determination to change: "So don't come round here and tell me I told you so."
Whereas those people who actually seem committed to growth, however painful it may be, I hear much more in Penitent:
"forgive me all my blindnesses, weakness and unkindnesses.."
"I wait to hear
Your voice,..."
just my observations...

The key to this song is in the line:

"The mother and the matadore, the mystic, each were here before like me, to stare you down."

Going back to "Days of Open Hand" Suzanne was in her latter 20's, and she was definitely the mystic, searching the world of dreams and spirituality for answers to life and love.

In 99.9F, she's the Matadore. She hasn't found any solid answers or satisfaction in love, but she's confident now that she can make these things manifest, and she's determined to do so. That album defy's death. In the opening song she wants to "make you see" if it's the "last" thing she does. She stands on the tightrope, no shadow or shade of a doubt. Etc... etc.

On "Nine Objects of Desire" She's the mother. She's given birth to Ruby, and is very greatful for the gift of her daughter, but otherwise, is very haunted, and unsatisfied with life and love. "Death" comes into the lyrics many times on that album, and when love is mentioned, it is always in terms of struggle and loss.

So in the opening number to SIRAG, she is something new. She is still the mystic, matadore, and the mother, but she is more than all these, and more alone, and more confused than at any previous stage. In this song she says to life and love, "I tried to understand you, I tried to slay you, I tried to embrace you, and still you elude me. Now what? You tell me! Now what?"

Whoever hasn't been there is headed there. It's a place we all find ourselves eventually. Suzanne captured it in her trademark poetic style, evolking both religion and romance, without falling into any obvious cliche.

Melodius

I found this really insightful and helpful, thank you. Wish I'd read it before I started my thread on 'image' because I see now how obvious it is that one's image is directly related to one's changing circumstances and developing personality.

I absolutely love this song because it's so honest about getting to a point where little makes sense anymore, and where future direction isn't clear. I also find the obvious religious imagery interesting. Intriguing that times of severe trial and difficulty lead us to consider the spiritual more, perhaps, than usual.

Stells xx

Oddly enough, while I analyze, read between the lines, and desperately try to figure out what Suzanne "really means" when she is writing a song, I never post those thoughts on the MB.

I do this purposefully because while I love to lurk among these song threads unnoticed and unnamed, I feel that as much as we debate and predict, only Suzanne herself knows what she really wanted the song to convey in the end.

And then again, maybe even she does not fully know. When writing, once you take off in flight, things almost begin to write themselves without effort—you are running on emotion, feelings, and of course the use of words that will give the listener a reason to listen again. The music, I am not fit to comment on, as I am not a musician—and because of that, my deep respect of how this band can pull together the sounds that go so perfectly with the lyrics is a beautiful mystery to me. I almost don't want to know how the sum of the parts become a whole.

Penitent is probably one of my 'closest to perfection' songs from Suzanne. It has all of the things that draw me to it like a moth to a flame. This combination of words, music, and humble (almost pleading) voice asking and wondering about direction, and in turn, what her response might be if that direction were given are just shy of anything I could ever hope to write myself.

Why "just shy?" Because she has written a handful of other songs that touch me in this most eloquent way—and then a mountain of material that I love for other reasons. Almost in spite of what might have been meant in the lyrics, we each take these into lives, our situations at the time, and make them our own. They fit in the places that we choose to fit them into—that is, unless you can completely remove yourself and be a third party observer. I can't.

But this—this bit of asking for direction, and wondering what you will do when and if you get it, just about brings me to my knees each time I hear it. Every time I listen, there is a nuance I have missed, a breath taken, a guitar lick, that strikes me as something I have not paid close enough attention to in the past and therefore have missed it's essence.

And so, back I go, to listen again....

xox/Catherine

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"If we don't change the direction we are headed,
we will end up where we are going."

—Chinese Proverb

Stella sez:
"I found this really insightful and helpful, thank you. Wish I'd read it before I started my thread on 'image' because I see now how obvious it is that one's image is directly related to one's changing circumstances and developing personality.
"

First of all, Stell, please DO keep calling me "Melodius". I like the ring of it.

I haven't even gotten to the image thread yet, but yeah, I see her acting and reacting with life.

Catherine, I just want to say, I don't intend my interpretations to be seen as any kind of "final authority" or anything. Really, my interpretations tell you about myself, rather than Suzanne. The example I'm trying to set is, don't be afraid to find personal meaning in these songs.

Suzanne's own "intention" for a song is just one more viewpoint. Even Suzanne can't have the final word, you see? Even her view changes over time.

I've been a songwriter for almost 20 years. It happens all the time where I listen to my own old lyrics and hear new meanings. Other people see things in my songs I never imagined, and many times I like their view better.

Maybe at the time I was inspired to write by the man, the woman, or the lamp-post, but in the end, it's always about more than that. It's always a bigger deal than I realized at writing.

Dear Pat,

Let me clear something up quickly: I'm glad that other people post their impressions/interpretations of Suzanne's songs—I learn a lot from them. And I never think of anyone as the "final authority" except Suzanne (and I think I mentioned, she may even change her mind about what she meant the song to convey)!

I was just saying that I, myself, don't have the ability to do this—or maybe I don't want to—I'm not sure which it is, they seem intertwined to me. I do find a lot of "personal meaning" in her songs, or I would not be posting on this board!

I guess I just stand by my original story: which is, I want to keep reading what all of you have to say about things—but (and I believe I mentioned Small Blue Thing in a thread once) I don't feel that I do this very well, myself.

Which leaves me the professional voyeur on the Songs thread! Please, all of you—keep posting away! I'll just be "in the outskirts and in the distance..." but I'm reading and listening ;-)

Catherine

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"If we don't change the direction we are headed,
we will end up where we are going."

—Chinese Proverb

Hey you guys,

I agree with you both, Catherine and Melodius Patrick ... The intrigue of these songs is surely part of the point of this whole MB! I love reading people's interpretations, it's so interesting; and like you say Pat, it tells us something about the person making the interpretation as much as about the song itself.

Wow, Pat you write songs! So do I, but not brilliantly. This is totally the wrong thread to ask this question, but perhaps I could just sneak it in ... (!) Do you write music or lyrics first? I've been debating this question a lot, particularly since listening so constantly to SV, whose predilection for words would seem to suggest that she starts with them. What do you think? Feel free to answer this question somewhere else if there is a better place for it!

Big smiles,
Stella x

I'll e-mail you, Stell.

Cath, no worries!

I think sometimes I come off sounding stuffy when I don't mean to. I gotta use these emoticons more.