Suzanne Vega

I think the basic point some of us are missing here is that Suzanne is a very intelligent, well educated and reasonable person. [Look how adeptly she handled DNA's unauthorized use of Tom's Diner as an example.] When fans try to implore her not to play Israel, they are implying that she is either ignorant or hasn't really thought about it (which I'm SURE is not the case) OR that she has no sense of right and wrong (which I'm also sure is not the case).

Having said that, I think it's excellent that the people here are not simply ranting at her but rather putting forth arguments respectfully. But I have a question for the "boycott Israel" person: you are LIVING in Tel Aviv . . . and yet you don't think Suzanne should VISIT Israel and perform there? Seriously?? This seems very hypocritical – maybe I am missing something.

Here's my take. I strongly oppose SOME of Israel's policies: the West Bank wall, building settlements in E. Jersusalem, settlements in general, etc! I think the current administration is a disaster. On the other hand, I thought the last US administration was a disaster – yet I wouldn't have encouraged anyone to boycott the US. As for Hamas, I consider them a bunch of thugs. Israel unilaterally pulled (literally) its settlers out of Gaza and look how Hamas responded. If ANY other country were in Israel's place and a neighboring territory repeatedly fired missiles into a civilian neighborhood, that would be considered an act of war . . . never mind a blockade, air strikes – it would be all-out war, invasion, occupation. On a separate note, a Muslim or Arabic woman living (as a citizen) in Israel has FAR more rights than she would if she were living under Hamas in Gaza. Never mind how a Jewish woman would be treated in Gaza. So PLEASE don't talk about Israel being weak on "human rights"! That's my 2 cents, so fire away.

Hi Suzanne, and welcome to the new Undertow!

For those who are unaware, the discussion here was mild and polite, compared to the unrestrained, tempestuous calls out there on Facebook and Twitter. People were begging Suzanne to boycott Israel using very hateful language, and after her shows those people started calling her a 'collaborator with inhumanity', putting her name on black lists and so forth.

'Narrow-mindedness' is the right term… a lot of people with good intentions get carried away into a black-and-white viewpoint, where anyone who slightly disagrees with the doctrine is deemed an enemy of the cause, with no room for doubt or criticism. I know this first-hand… sometimes it happens to me too when discussing environmental issues.

So thank you, Suzanne, for sharing your thoughts with us, for seriously addressing this issue, and for making an informed decision.

Yuval =8-)

Hey Suzanne, great to see you post here and I'm glad you shared what was going on behind the scenes with all of us.  Anybody who's been paying attention to the lyrics of your songs and the charities you've supported over the years already knows you are a compassionate human being.

For some reason I keep thinking of an old song, with some line about "challenging the future with a profound lack of history." Anyone familiar with that one?

In this case, the folks who abruptly showed up on this board asking Suzanne to "please care about human rights" (implying: please start caring about human rights) don't seem to realize that, while she's largely been apolitical in her public stances, she has also been vocal in support of human rights (especially involving children) for more than two decades, and not just in the United States.

They also seem unaware that Suzanne took a public stance against the Iraq war shortly before the invasion — at a time when some artists in the United States were finding themselves banned from the airwaves, or even having their CDs destroyed at pro-war rallies, if they criticized the president or U.S. foreign policy. (This was back in the era when the White House press secretary was telling Americans to "watch what they say." Nowadays, of course, it's considered the height of patriotism in some circles for politicians to talk about violently overthrowing the U.S. government, and for protesters to bring loaded guns to the president's speeches.) She was willing to take that public stand even though the war had the support of a sizable majority of Americans, as well as most of the leading pundits and political leaders, in her home country where she makes the vast majority of her livelihood. Not even everyone on the Undertow agreed with her at that time.

And again, a year later, she played benefit concerts for George W. Bush's opponent in the 2004 election, taking the risk of alienating a not-insignificant portion of her fan base. Then as now, that prompted some previously unseen person to suddenly appear on the Undertow and express all kinds of indignation at Suzanne's behavior.

Suzanne has been adamant througout the years that she is an artist, not a politician, but she has stood up on issues that she cares about, even when it would have seemed commercially more astute to keep quiet and not ruffle any feathers. So I'm pretty confident that she didn't reject the boycott out of ignorance, greed, lack of concern for human rights, or any of the other hypothetical reasons that some people have proffered here.

Rather, it seems, she just doesn't agree with you.

another law of nature states that:

• If you put a spoonful of mud in a barrel full of butter, the mud sinks and butter floats.
• If you put a spoonful of butter in a barrel full of mud, with time the butter still floats .

you see yuval, no matter how much bullshit and apologist nonsense you throw at people – truth and justice will still prevail.

[disclaimer: using butter in the example does not encourage you in any way to use animal-based products. please go vegan.]

now to answer bobking who bothered to write something worthwhile:

1. when you quote something, be it The Bible, Gandhi or Vega – it doesn't make your argument better. truth and clarity are also of importance.

2. you mention that Suzanne indeed took a political stand in the past and also took a clear stand for human rights times before.

and yet.. in the least complicated conflict which exists in the world today, in the most documented and most watched, where violations of the International Law and of basic human rights are institutionalized and take place every single minute of the day – Suzanne said the hell with human rights, I am here to sing. (this is not a direct quote).

therefore i was kind enough to offer that she may have been totally ignorant of the above, because the alternative is not a pleasant one.

3. if you claim that it is only the Israeli government and its terror/security arms that are at wrong, but its people should not be subjected to these crimes, i urge you to better get acquainted with the Israeli Jewish/zionist society. every single part of the society is complicit, i have mentioned some of these claims at the beginning of this discussion.

if ~95% of Israeli Jews supported the massacre of Gaza as it was happening and the vast majority still does; if roughly the same numbers supported the attack and murder of the Free Gaza flotilla activists, while wishing that more would have been killed; if non-Jews in Israel are treated as the enemy from within, a 5th column and a "demographic bomb"; if a large part of Suzanne's crowd are exactly these people – would that make you think otherwise?

4. finally, having said all of the above let me also play the quoting game:

Albert Einstein speaking of M.K. Gandhi:

"I believe that Gandhi's views were the most enlightened of all the political men in our time.

We should strive to do things in his spirit: not to use violence in fighting for our cause, but by non-participation in anything you believe is evil."

hi Ed, by hatred do you mean writing letters expressing our call and asking the artists to make a moral choice on the matter? look at the following example letters:

The Pixies:

An Open Letter to the Pixies

Boycott! Praises The Pixies Cancellation Following Flotilla Raid

Gil Scott-Heron:

They need to know we're on their side, a letter to Gil Scott Heron

Thank You Letter to Gil Scott Heron From Over 50 Organizations

Leftfield:

Leftfield, Don't Cross the BDS Picket Line

Thank You, Leftfield!

Jeff Beck:

Jeff Beck, Don't Play Apartheid Israel!

you see, whether Suzanne chooses to come and play apartheid Israel or avoid playing, she takes a political stand, there is no way around it. this is also what Devandra Bernhardt realized and cancelled his show at the very last minute. he wanted to be apolitical, he wanted to do art regardless of the situation in Israel&OPT and then it all backfired when the zionists made him an icon of zionism – claiming he is pro-Israeli and planning to show up at the concert with a whole bunch of Israeli flags.

poor Devandra had to cancel because he realized that he is forced to take a side, and it better be a moral one.

have a good day,

ronnie

ItsTimeToBoycott writes:

"now to answer bobking who bothered to write something worthwhile."

Actually, people who have been on the Undertow for a long while could correct your misimpression — I've never written anything worthwhile here.

I think you miss a bunch of other points too. For example, I wasn't claiming that Suzanne deserves endless credit because she "indeed took a political stand in the past," as if that were an isolated incident. I was citing this as evidence of character. She's got a track record in this arena. And what she was risking in terms of her career and livelihood in 2003 (just ask the Dixie Chicks) was much more than she would have lost in terms of income by canceling two concerts in Israel in 2010. So I feel confident in saying that this was not a matter of economics for her.

The fact that other artists canceled their appearances doesn't mean they were right and Suzanne was wrong (or vice versa). Maybe those others don't believe in the boycott but simply succumbed to pressure. Or maybe they did believe in it — and, shockingly, maybe Suzanne disagrees with them. People do disagree about stuff, you know.

You may believe that the decades-old Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the "least complicated conflict which exists in the world today," but I really think you're in the minority in holding that opinion. Here are some other opinions which you would probably be shocked to find fairly commonly held in Suzanne's home country:

1) There's plenty of blame among extremists on both sides.

2) Whatever mistakes or misdeeds it may have committed, Israel has a right to defend itself from violence.

3) What exactly was the cause of the conflict pre-1967, when Gaza and the West Bank were in Arab hands?

I'm not saying Suzanne holds these opinions, but many other people do. People disagree on the cause of the violence, which also means they disagree about the solutions. People who don't think that Israel is the only culpable party in this conflict, alone among all the other participants and their allies (Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Saudis, the Iranians, the United States, etc.), are not likely to think that boycotting Israel is the way to peace.

I'm also a bit disturbed by all your references to "Israeli Jewish society," which imply a belief in collective guilt and collective punishment. The fact that X percent of Israelis believe something in a survey doesn't mean that Suzanne's Israeli fans believe it too. Sadly, we Vega fans make up a rather small percentage of the population in any country, and we're entirely self-selected, so it might be that our opinions are vastly different than that of the greater population. (Maybe 90 percent of her fans in Israel are peace activists. Who knows?)

And finally, did you even read Suzanne's response on this very same message board?

"I went to Israel, I played two concerts there. I also met with B'Tselem, an Israeli human rights organization. I went with them to East Jerusalem and a part of the West Bank. I felt it was important to educate myself about the situation, to go, and confront, and see for myself. I feel this will be an ongoing dialogue which I am more than willing to participate in."

That's right — she met with a human rights group! Went to see the conditions first-hand! And is committed to educating herself and participating in dialogue! Truly appalling! No wonder you're villifying her so.